Quick Look: Phoenix Wright - Ace Attorney Trilogy

OBJECTION!!

HOLD IT!

Umm this PC version looks terrible. The touch controls on the Switch are great though and I'd highly recommend enabling the see through text box so you can actually see the art.

stokely bellwether - ace attorney

I should probably go back to this on 3DS, tempted to rebuy it just to make it easier to motivate me to finish it but that seems dumb!

(Edit: Ha.. I really should just watch entire Quick Looks before answering questions that are raised early on... glad you guys figured it out)

For Vinny, Dan, and Abby: The original trilogy of games were on the GBA in Japan (the first game is actually from 2001!) and it wasn't until the ports to the DS that they got localized to the US. In the DS port of the 1st game, a new bonus case was added at the end, which had new features designed to take advantage of the touch screen and mic (these are the things Vinny is referring to at around the 10:00 mark). This is why the events and characters in that case were never mentioned again in Ace Attorney 2 or 3, but it eventually becomes part of the canon with the release of AA4: Apollo Justice. I really hope Abby plays through the whole trilogy and I hope this comment kinda helps clarify the context of some otherwise weird storytelling.

I adore this series overall, especially the original trilogy. The localization team did a fantastic job with the writing, even if some of the early-2000s pop culture references they throw in maybe haven't aged super well.

Abby - I'd never before considered how booby some of the women in this game are and I think it might be due to the new art style. In their original formats, even on the DS, the game's spritework is pixel-y (and obviously smaller) and those games looked AMAZING. I am really, really not a fan of the "new" re-drawn HD "sprites" in this port. Things are too smooth and glossy-looking and it feels gross. And the UI feels really cheap as well. All that said, I hope you enjoy one of my favorite franchises!

If you don't have a controller plugged in the mouse works as you'd expect, being able to just move it around instead of holding click and dragging it.

Try to imagine the most polite way of expressing one's disapproval of Abby's opinion. Then, Imagine I wrote that (I won't engage in another argument).

I fail to understand, how seductive portrayal of a fictional female character in a videogame would be lack of respect for a real human being.

I must write, this is not the first instance I have heard of this opinion, what surprises me is that the other cases were among religious circles.

It is also curious that, as a person living in the western world, I have not witnessed this sentiment emerge outside of NA.

Sexual harassment is a threat, criminal behavior, and a disgrace. Sexual portrayal, sexual attire is not the same.

The exigence of a specific clothing code to be observed in the society or media has historically had religious roots, which is not to be dismissed but to be honestly acknowledged.

Moreover, the argument that this fiction would have any external effect on the audience's behavior in the real world shares similarities with the argument that violent videogames incite violence.

I'm open to a respectful, honest discussion on the matter, as long as it does not involve personal attacks on me or anyone else.

Vinny's insistence that "no opacity" is the same as "opaque" has triggered me.

@s5n8k3: I'm willing to engage with your argument only if you let me use personal attacks on you.

For what it's worth, AA is not a super fanservice-heavy series. Mia and April are more the exception than the rule, so you could say that stuff is a little...

...front-loaded.

I'm real proud of the Deviantart user who got hired to do the new character art.

I love that everything Dan always thought and said he hated. Turns out are actually things he loves and was always doing but just never realised. Like Adventure Games, Anime, food, and the list goes on.

@s5n8k3 said:

It's not. You completely misunderstand, or are deliberately choosing to misinterpret, Abby's criticism and the broader issue of objectification of women in media in general. I don't have the interest, time, or energy in trying to explain to you something that's so basic in 2019, especially not here, so just let it go.

Having never played this on the handhelds, I'm glad I have the opportunity to play this and hope they release all these games.

@czarship: I can see why people would rather play this on a handheld, but only having a PC I am happy to play it with a controller on my couch.

Not for me it doesn't. Although I found clicking and dragging fine, especially as you don't do that much examining things anyway. If it were a pixel hunt adventure game then it would be more annoying.

@garwalk: I would like to salute you for the restraint you have shown in your comment, especially, when it appears you think very little of my opinion, based on you your third last phrase.

I would like to leave you with two famous quotes from Einstein (one regarding patience and another explanation) and a thought:

"It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer."

"If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself."

Finally, this is not the first instance of the "basic" and "the myth of the obvious" hindering development of thought and progress through constructive argument.

Regards,

Love these games but I'm 100% with Abby on the way Mia's portrayed. April May serves a point because she's supposed to be actively trying to sway men onto her side, but there's no reason Mia needs to be busting out of her top like that. (Especially given the whole medium stuff later)

Thankfully it's not a constant thing with the women in Ace Attorney, at least as far as I can remember.

This is a graphic novel and an adventure game. Not one thing Dan claims to not like, but two.

@s5n8k3: Abby just said she didn't like it, that is kinda enough, no? There was no big speech on her part, nor a need for a big speech as a reply. I think you are adding too much to the cooking pot even if you want to make a nice meal.

I replayed some of this earlier in the year, and yeah, Mia's appearance and especially Maya's appearance when channeling her made me do a double-take.

Also, with regards to whether this is Japan or the US: The localization is expressly made to make you feel that it's not Japan -- which is understandable given the year this came out, but nowadays it feels a little jarring, since there's A LOT of cultural Japanese stuff they completely gloss over. At least they don't do a lot of sprite editing to mask it.

Oh, Abby..

@matiaz_tapia: Sorry, maybe you're right.

Having a taste, opinion or preference is anyone's liberty.

I don't like my clothes colored pink or dark blue, for example.

Thanks for the comment.

Abby was right about opacity.

I didn't have a problem with it before or now so it's inexplicable that anyone would have a problem with it now!

Some of ya'll kill me with your logic.

People have different tastes. I, personally, fall in Abby's camp. I really enjoyed these games back in the DS days but even as a teen I felt pretty grody when they started showing Mia possessed by Maya and (or whatever, sorry if I screwed up names) and it's suddenly a CHILD with a giant rack front and center. I'm not calling for censorship (neither did Abby) just saying it came off as gross fanservice that didn't help the game any and, for me, hindered it some.

I found the ghostly stuff to be a turn off to begin with (I don't like supernatural stuff) and to have the possession result in giant boobs just felt childish.

thank you for my horrifying thought of the day.... Dan Rykert on a Jury.

Please do not tell Dan this is what an adventure game is because then he is really missing out on what a real adventure game is if he thinks a visual novel is an adventure game. You can really not put this in the same conversation as The Longest Journey, The Dig, Full Throttle, Sam N Max. This game is great and all but to truly embrace what adventure games are you need to play one of the classics and not a mish mash of genres. This is a visual novel with adventure game elements. Even the wikipedia says its a visual novel.

Dan you need to play a real god given adventure game by a small indie company called "LucasArts", might I suggest "Day of the Tentacle" or "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis"? Those are adventure games you would enjoy. I would like to see the beast crew also play through Gabriel Knight and see if it still holds up. That game was pretty hard from what I remember.

Just play all of the LucasArts adventure games Vinny/Dan/Abby/Alex it would be a real showstopper!

Are you really quoting Einstein while defending big titty anime girls?

@s5n8k3: OBJECTION!

@geurge: I didn't have a controller plugged or connected in and the mouse was still doing that.

lmfao

@s5n8k3: You do realize ace attorney is a game of fiction and all the characters and their looks are made up? These characters aren't people making their own choices. It is the difference between sexualization via ones own self empowerment and being sexualized by a third party without any say in the matter. You do know cartoons aren't real people, right?

For people who have played both, do the Professor Layton games scratch the same itch as this stuff?

I have all the Layton games, and if that's enough I'll just keep playing those. I think Phoenix maaaay offer a little more decision making though, and maybe I'll try it. For Professor Layton, you solve mini-logic puzzles and work your way through a mystery. But you can't actually mess up the mystery as far as I know.

Should I play these?

@leraa:You could always check out Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney as a taste test.

P.S. While I'm here, @s5n8k3, come on, this is really embarrassing. Stop.

@leraa: They're pretty different. Layton is more about working through the puzzles to progress the story, while PW games are basically visual novels with some points where you need to investigate or present the right evidence. If you're okay with lots of text and reading, the PW games have a great story.

It's not the same style as Layton, but I think its an unqualified recommendation if you like how it looks.

@sansjason and @drachmalius, thank you both, that's just the info I need. I'm going to play some! I do like reading texts in adventure games-- it's fun to find a new story and a nice palate cleanser from all the murderin' I do in my other games.

I think I'll start with the crossover SansJason recommend.

Wow huge bummer to hear the PC port has no mouse support because the switch version's touch screen support is great. Like can play the whole game without using a single button

@fontelroy: Exactly. It's " a work of fiction" and "made up."

Hence, my argument about it not necessarily having a manifestation on one's real-world behavior.

Is it, simply, the idea that one may look at these "made up" creations with lust that some find offensive?

If so, how would that sentiment be any different from religious prudence?

At the risk of exaggeration, how would that differ from forcing Michelangelo to cover his statues with fig leaves?

Thanks for the comment.

@leraa: that crossover rules, good choice!

@meauntienora: What? I think the art looks really sharp in this. Doesn’t look like they had to redraw anything.

Dan Ryckert question of the day: “Does the judge just sit around the whole time and say a number for years in prison?”

igiari!! sounds way better... just saying

also this redrawn art looks like shit compared to the ds one

edit: this is not a adventure game btw, this game is a visual novel, its like the textbook definition of a visual novel

@s5n8k3: Are you saying all prudence and decorum stems from religious values? I do not think the desire of people to have their sexuality continuously objectified in media comes from religious prudence. I think its a valid point of criticism when a character has aspects of their design created purely for sexual objectification given the context of a lawyer adventure game. I'm not saying its something people should go to jail for, but its fair game to question the motives behind the creative decisions. To disregard the sexual objectification of women (or in this case, girls) in modern times on the grounds of it being a vestige of religious fundamentalism misses the point entirely. With regards to your Michelangelo question, I truly did not know that the ninja turtles were into sculpting.

Hahaha, thank fuck for V-Sync :) Also these comments are good fun. Thanks duders.

@fontelroy:I appreciate the comment and the sense of humor.

If you find the presentation not to your liking, it would just be a matter of your opinion. And, as I had written, religiously motivated or otherwise, I can respect that.

What you are attempting to assert, is the very focus of the argument.

If you were to suggest that these characters were created only for the purpose of sexually seducing the audience, you would be wrong. The character has lines of dialogues and plays a role in the story.

If what disturbs you is the existence of a work of fiction created as a means to sexually seduce the audience, then, by that token you would have to take offense to Venus de Milo, Lady Liberty (bare-chested in La Liberté guidant le peuple), or Nu couché.

To be clear, I mean these to serve as a counter-example and, I don't intend to attack you. And personally, none of the art on display in the video enticed me, personally.

What disappoints me is that a sexually seductive fictional character, or one that is not but is nude cannot co-exist alongside fully clothed or religious ones.

And if they can, would the presence of one necessitate that the audience perceives another human being in the real world as an object? I sure hope not.

Anyway, thanks for the comment.

Relating this to anything religious is a bit much, it just simply seems like American culture is a lot more reserved and introverted when it comes to the "sexy" portrayal of women and what's accepted here. (I encourage you to look at Brazilian Carnival and Trinidad Carnival and the outfits women wear to those that they made themselves and you'ill understand why for us from the outside looking in American culture seems very reserved)

Just one look outside of American culture, and women who've cosplayed Mia, who do erocosplay/boudoir and do specifically Erocosplay and boudoir of 2B from Nier (which was the character Abby hated), and who actually grew up with these sort of designs and actually LOVED it, just makes me look at the stuff Abby objects to between this and Nier and be like "American's seem to have a really reserved view when it comes to character design"

(Not objecting to criticism on April's design as i agree with Abby on that she's created to seduce men and her dialogue in the game shows that, but this whole thing over Mia i think its a bit much, as not once in this entire trilogy of games does her dialogue give any sort of pandering tone to the male player audience or to Phoenix, and she's not robbed of agency in the story and just becomes a sex object for the male gaze, as shes not in the game often, and when she is, its literally cause of her during a few times over the course of the trilogy is how Phoenix has a breakthrough to win cases, its literally just cleavage,)

I genuinely love all the staff at GB, this site even in this generation really got me out of a bad funk numerous times, but not about to blindly defend them on stuff i object to either.

Abby is correct on Opacity.

100% opacity means something is fully opaque.

0% opacity means something is completely invisible.

-A visual effects editor.

@s5n8k3: The gist of the issue is that "art" reflects life which reflects art. It doesn't matter if something is "harmless fiction" if that fiction reflects or perpetuates real-world stereotypes or derogatory depictions. Some reasons why the depiction of women in this genre can be offensive:

* It can suggest "women are worthless unless they flaunt their sexiness".

* It can suggest the opposite: "Women who flaunt their sexiness are worthless because they have nothing else going for them."

* It can suggest that women deserve whatever bad fortune falls upon them because they are or are not using sexiness to their advantage.

And, of course, their's the inherent problem of having male artists and graphic designers depict women in certain ways based entirely on their imaginations/fantasies, without any real female input.

Guys, stop feeding the troll who immediately chose to bomb the comments section of a Ace Attorney Quick Look with passive-aggressive walls of text about why he thinks feminist critiques of art are bad or whatever. Pleeeeease.

@s5n8k3: I believe you're disregarding the larger social context of things, as I do think that the un-willful sexual objectification of a person or group (and, more importantly, the celebration of it) leads to more un-willfull sexual objectification of people and said group. The character in this lawyer attorney video game is not choosing to be sexually seductive. Do you not see how the 'choice' is the issue and what is being criticized here? It has nothing to do with whether or not being sexually seductive is wrong or bad. Your assertion that Phoenix Wright's celebration of the human form is comparable to great works of classical art is like asserting that a chicken nugget is a celebration of the chicken. The chicken don't want no part of that celebration son.